Power steering pump
#1
10-03-2011, 03:16 PM
Power steering pump
1) Car: 1995 Olds Royale 88, 3.8liter, 70,000 miles.
2) Two years ago I noticed some oil leakage around the pump, two loose mount bolts, and I found a TBS on the loose bolts. The leakage appeared to be coming from the reservoir seal, or just some splash, and not the shaft seal.
3) Since I was ordering other parts from RockAuto, I decided to include a rebuilt Cardone #2055895. In April, 2009, I installed the pump. The pump whined a small amount in the morning, but when the weather got colder the whining got severe, and the pump started vomitting fluid.
4) Since the system was flushed two times, a quality Prestone fluid was used, and the original pump or system never made noise, the problem appears to be the pump.
5) In Feb, 2010, I ordered a replacement pump and installed it. The whine and the vomitting on cold startups was more severe than the first pump. I called RockAuto, and they again said I must order the same pump under a manufacturer's warranty which I did not want to do, as there were 4-5 pump options available in their catalog.
6) I decided to try one more time and about three weeks ago I installed the third pump before going to visit family 1200 miles away, which is where I am at at the moment.
7) I have topped up the reservoir several times. When the engine is hot there is virtually no whine or aerated foam in the reservor. But in the morning at temperatures of no lower than approximately 5-10 degrees F a whine exist, and there is foam in the reservoir. I expect this condition to get worst in the upcoming winter weather.
8) I do not think the problem is cavitation since the whining and foaming disappears when the engine gets warmed up. I also do not think there is anything wrong with the rack and pinion steering, since this conditon came with the rebuilt pumps.
9) It is increasingly appearing that the #2055895 pump is not the right pump, or has the wrong spring, and/or washers in the pressure relief. Due to the difficulty of getting at the high pressure line, I have not checked the pressure. The problem is very temperature dependent, and it seems that the pressure relief pressure is to low for the vehicle.
10) Another parts store lists the Cardone part #2055540 as the correct part, but RockAuto list both pumps as usuable on a 1995 Olds.
11) Any ideas or help is appreciated. I know that rebuilt power steering pumps can be tempermental, and I guess I should have followed my intuition and bought a new pump. With the Fed-X and core-return costs I now have spent the price of a new pump.
2) Two years ago I noticed some oil leakage around the pump, two loose mount bolts, and I found a TBS on the loose bolts. The leakage appeared to be coming from the reservoir seal, or just some splash, and not the shaft seal.
3) Since I was ordering other parts from RockAuto, I decided to include a rebuilt Cardone #2055895. In April, 2009, I installed the pump. The pump whined a small amount in the morning, but when the weather got colder the whining got severe, and the pump started vomitting fluid.
4) Since the system was flushed two times, a quality Prestone fluid was used, and the original pump or system never made noise, the problem appears to be the pump.
5) In Feb, 2010, I ordered a replacement pump and installed it. The whine and the vomitting on cold startups was more severe than the first pump. I called RockAuto, and they again said I must order the same pump under a manufacturer's warranty which I did not want to do, as there were 4-5 pump options available in their catalog.
6) I decided to try one more time and about three weeks ago I installed the third pump before going to visit family 1200 miles away, which is where I am at at the moment.
7) I have topped up the reservoir several times. When the engine is hot there is virtually no whine or aerated foam in the reservor. But in the morning at temperatures of no lower than approximately 5-10 degrees F a whine exist, and there is foam in the reservoir. I expect this condition to get worst in the upcoming winter weather.
8) I do not think the problem is cavitation since the whining and foaming disappears when the engine gets warmed up. I also do not think there is anything wrong with the rack and pinion steering, since this conditon came with the rebuilt pumps.
9) It is increasingly appearing that the #2055895 pump is not the right pump, or has the wrong spring, and/or washers in the pressure relief. Due to the difficulty of getting at the high pressure line, I have not checked the pressure. The problem is very temperature dependent, and it seems that the pressure relief pressure is to low for the vehicle.
10) Another parts store lists the Cardone part #2055540 as the correct part, but RockAuto list both pumps as usuable on a 1995 Olds.
11) Any ideas or help is appreciated. I know that rebuilt power steering pumps can be tempermental, and I guess I should have followed my intuition and bought a new pump. With the Fed-X and core-return costs I now have spent the price of a new pump.
#3
10-09-2011, 11:59 AM
I work at a parts store and A1-Cardone has me shaken a bit. We sell them as our primary rebuilt pieces and the quality of some of the stuff just doesn't seem to be up to par for some reason. I don't know if it's due to the volume of product they are being forced to turn out or what, but I have seen some all out JUNK in the boxes from them.
I would go with a new one whenever possible to avoid something like this in the future,
I would go with a new one whenever possible to avoid something like this in the future,
#4
10-14-2011, 03:57 PM
1) An update. I got home from my vacation on Oct 10. The total mileage on the trip was approximately 3200 miles.
2) To alleviate foaming of the fluid on the trip, I would let the engine warm up in the cold mornings, before turning the wheel which was producing some foam, even in 45-50 degree F weather. The foaming and subsequent squealing is very temperature dependent. Once warmed up there is no foaming or squealing. That is why I could travel that distance without having problems.
3) I keeped a watch on the fluid level and topped it up perhaps 4-5 times, using about 1/2-3/4 of a quart of fluid. The loss of fluid on the trip was always due to needing to start and go before the system was at operating temperature. Once warmed up or on the highway, there was no loss of fluid due to foaming. When warm, and with the engine running the fluid was devoid of foam and swirling a bit as is normal.
4) Yesterday, I contacted Cardone Technical Service. We are now corresponding. He says that the Cardone #2055895 which I have is for a '96-'99 Olds. But mine is a '95 Olds, so maybe we are getting some where.
5) I do not want to spend anymore money, or tear into the system until I have made certain that the pump I have is the correct one for the vehicle. I noted that the '94 Olds has some other part numbers listed. Why? Perhaps my vehicle needs a pump from a '94.
6) 6) My mind keeps going over the problem and the events and they are:
A) Before I installed the Cardone pump there was never any squeal, even in bitter cold weather.
B) The original pump had two loose bolts and was not likely leaking. In hindsight, I should not have changed it.
C) The System was flushed three times, using the turn-the-wheel method until the fluid was and is a transparent color.
7) It would only take a small reduction in the diameter of the pressure relief orfice or a small reduction in spring force to cause what I am seeing, which is when the fluid viscosity is high in a cold morning start. the pressure relief opens to early, and shunts fluid into the reservoir creating foam which in turn enters the R&P, creating the squealing.
8) Another possibility is that there is blockage in the system somewhere. This is talked about on the Cardone site. I have not ruled out this possibility, but will not act on the possibility until I have made certain that the correct pump is on the vehicle.
9) I discussed the Prestone fluid with the Tech, and he had no comment other than to say that some fluids are crappy which their web sites says. But Prestone is listed on their site as okay. I called Prestone and they had no specifications (viscosity, pour point, etc), and said to call Raychem which I have not done yet. A fluid change is one of the variables in the problem, so although it is highly unlikely that it is the problem, I should make sure.
10) There are very few fixes-in-the-can so I have avoided putting some this or that in the system, although I have thought of flushing and installing transmission fluid, to see what difference there may be. Transmission fluid was the go-to power steering fluid for many decades. Its viscosity index, pour point, and smoke number may be better, and it is not likely to react with the shaft seal which is probably Vitan-A.
Enyal
2) To alleviate foaming of the fluid on the trip, I would let the engine warm up in the cold mornings, before turning the wheel which was producing some foam, even in 45-50 degree F weather. The foaming and subsequent squealing is very temperature dependent. Once warmed up there is no foaming or squealing. That is why I could travel that distance without having problems.
3) I keeped a watch on the fluid level and topped it up perhaps 4-5 times, using about 1/2-3/4 of a quart of fluid. The loss of fluid on the trip was always due to needing to start and go before the system was at operating temperature. Once warmed up or on the highway, there was no loss of fluid due to foaming. When warm, and with the engine running the fluid was devoid of foam and swirling a bit as is normal.
4) Yesterday, I contacted Cardone Technical Service. We are now corresponding. He says that the Cardone #2055895 which I have is for a '96-'99 Olds. But mine is a '95 Olds, so maybe we are getting some where.
5) I do not want to spend anymore money, or tear into the system until I have made certain that the pump I have is the correct one for the vehicle. I noted that the '94 Olds has some other part numbers listed. Why? Perhaps my vehicle needs a pump from a '94.
6) 6) My mind keeps going over the problem and the events and they are:
A) Before I installed the Cardone pump there was never any squeal, even in bitter cold weather.
B) The original pump had two loose bolts and was not likely leaking. In hindsight, I should not have changed it.
C) The System was flushed three times, using the turn-the-wheel method until the fluid was and is a transparent color.
7) It would only take a small reduction in the diameter of the pressure relief orfice or a small reduction in spring force to cause what I am seeing, which is when the fluid viscosity is high in a cold morning start. the pressure relief opens to early, and shunts fluid into the reservoir creating foam which in turn enters the R&P, creating the squealing.
8) Another possibility is that there is blockage in the system somewhere. This is talked about on the Cardone site. I have not ruled out this possibility, but will not act on the possibility until I have made certain that the correct pump is on the vehicle.
9) I discussed the Prestone fluid with the Tech, and he had no comment other than to say that some fluids are crappy which their web sites says. But Prestone is listed on their site as okay. I called Prestone and they had no specifications (viscosity, pour point, etc), and said to call Raychem which I have not done yet. A fluid change is one of the variables in the problem, so although it is highly unlikely that it is the problem, I should make sure.
10) There are very few fixes-in-the-can so I have avoided putting some this or that in the system, although I have thought of flushing and installing transmission fluid, to see what difference there may be. Transmission fluid was the go-to power steering fluid for many decades. Its viscosity index, pour point, and smoke number may be better, and it is not likely to react with the shaft seal which is probably Vitan-A.
Enyal
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